Doctor Who 7x05 - The Angels Take Manhattan

[keep_counting]

Yet another point-giving, rambling, and very incoherent review.



THE GOOD:

- The whole domesticity that is the Doctor and the Ponds outing in the park. +10

- The Statue of Liberty is an Angel. +20

- And +10 for playing 'Legal Alien'. It made me giggle

- 'It would be almost impossible!' - 'Loving the 'almost'' +5 for one of River's best lines

- Amy's glasses. +20. I wish I would look as attractive in glasses - especially because I'm half-blind and so need them.

- 'Yowza!' +10

- 'The Roman in the Cellar'. This amused me. +5. And +10 for Amy coming up with the whole 'looking at chapter titles'

- Amy and Rory. Going down together. +10

- 'And you really think you'll come back?' - 'When don't I?' THANK-YOU SHOW FOR MAKING ME LAUGH AND TEARING OUT MY HEART AT THE SAME TIME. +10

- Also thanks for finally using paradoxes right. It only took you three seasons Moffat. +5

- +5 for someone finally having enough sense to just CHAIN UP one of the Angels. Like, put it in a cage or something. Not even the Angels can move through walls, as evidenced by a LOCKED DOOR keeping them out.

- +10 for making the baby-angels REALLY CREEPY

- 'Well, I always wanted to see the Statue of Liberty. I guess she got impatient.' Rory, you got to be so funny and cute this episode! +10

- I felt like Moffat held back with the timey-wimeyness this episode: it could have gotten much more cluttered and stupid than some of it was, and I really appreciate that we didn't get a repeat of some of his earlier missteps. Some of it was far-fetched (and we'll get to that later) but the core of the plot - the angels, the paradox - did make sense (as much as DW ever does). +5

- The Doctor reading aloud and Amy's attitude towards that. They're a family here, guys, and it pleases me a lot. +10

- Melody Mallone! I can get on board with that. +10

(points: 165)



THE BAD:

- Let's just start right of the bat, because there are a lot of things I don't like in this episode. Here we go:

- Amy, calling out to Melody in those last moments and then asking her to please take care of the Doctor, and saying nothing more than that. Seriously, Amy, say a proper goodbye to your daughter that doesn't revolve around the Doctor. -20

- I have to take away -5 for having the Statue of Liberty be an Angel, and then hardly using it at all. Then again, people would have probably noticed a giant statue walking around if it had been used more.

- 'Just you wait 'till my husband gets home' yeah, because River can't take care of herself, clearly. -10

- The whole Doctor/River dynamic is just so... screwed up. And on one hand, I like that Moffat actually isn't ignoring this fact: the way they talk to each other is not sweet-cheeks at all, they're very harsh and River has the attitude of someone who really resents the fact that she's in love with this mad man, and the Doctor's generally just all-over the place when it comes to her. On the other hand, I sometimes get the feeling that Moffat wants this because he thinks its an attractive prospect? Which its really not. They're messed up and kinda not good for each other, but they also need each other, especially now. I'm not going to take away points for this, it's just... observations. I don't know that I want more of this dynamic because it feels like its getting nowhere: especially because we know how River's story ends.

- Why the sudden inability to walk past a frozen Angel? If you keep your eyes on it, you can walk right past it - even touch it - without anything happening. No reason to run for the roof, really. -1 only, because it was such a small detail and that staircase was kinda narrow.

- The Angels are just not scary anymore. Yeah, the babies in the cellar kind of were, but nothing beyond that. -10 for having a whole city full of Angels, and hardly using them at all

- The Doctor running in slow-motion through the park. WHAT EVEN WAS THAT. LOL I'M SORRY. Matt looks awkward running at a normal pace, in slow-motion it was RIDICOLOUS BABY GIRAFFE WITH AN ADDED LIMB. I was all teary-eyed after Amy's goodbye and then WHAM. Lololol. -10 for killing the mood

- I don't understand why the Doctor can't go back and see them. I get that New York in that period is now Time Locked or whatever (not that Moffat thinks that counts for Skaro, but then again, no canon matters but Moffat's canon -.-), but can't they just take a trip OUTSIDE of New York? I refuse to believe that the whole of Earth is Locked in this period. -20 for taking away the Ponds forever, and not giving a good enough reason imo.

- Why did Rory go back and check out that particular gravestone? WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT YOU TWAT JUST GET IN THE TARDIS ADJLKDJKSLJDKSLDHDSJK. -5 for tragedy

- I think that's the end of my review. Yeah, that's... you know. I'm done now. See ya in December guys, yeah?

Points for this episode: 84

Points for the season: 528

You know,

the Ponds are gone

and they lived happily together

but they'll never see the Doctor or River again

they'll never see Brian again. or Amy's parents

and we'll never see them again either

never ever

guys, the angels don't have the phonebox

they got the ponds instead

Comments

[uniquegrl7.livejournal.com]

I really loved this episode. It reminded me of the Girl Who Waited (one of my favorite episodes) with the well-done timey-wimey-ness and Amy having to give up her life to have a life. And it was always Rory, wasn't it? I actually like watching River and the Doctor interact, because it puts the Doctor in a new light, as someone who never communicates when he's supposed to ("Doctor, talk to me!") and as someone who loves a lot but doesn't (or can't) love well. I liked that something so mundane as getting coffee ended up so insane. I also thought the slo-mo Doctor running sequence was a bit much, a bit cliched, but I liked Amy's letter at the end. I think the main reason why she didn't give a real goodbye to River is because River can come back to visit her mum and dad whenever she likes.
But overall, I was a puddle of sadness. And the Doctor's crying after Amy left was so good. I can't wait for Christmas.

[keep-counting.livejournal.com]

I was largely unsatisfied. I think also because my expectations were much higher - which they really shouldn't be when it comes to Moffat. I still liked it better than AotD though, and it definitely wasn't the worst episode of the season.

I don't like the way Moffat potrays romantic relationships at all, so the Doctor/River dynamic always feels off to me, but I like it as long as I think of it as the messed-up clutter it is - and they did have very good chemistry this episode. And Amy's letter was perfect - not overtly sentimental, just straight to the point :)

[londonmarie.livejournal.com]

This has to be for me one of the least moving companion departure. The Pond's last episodes were disappointments for me. I agree with you about Moffat's portrayals of romantic relationships. With Amy and Rory the sort of bossiness Amy has works so much, because that's how Amy has always been written. River's bossiness with the Doctor is annoying. Yes I know she really hasn't traveled with him yet, so her bossiness hasn't been really shown how bad it can be. I guess it's more ego. River is very egotistical. It's clear she still hasn't really learned her lesson about the laws of time and all that stuff since TWoRS.

I hated that River was all "I was pardoned because apparently the person I killed doesn't exist." What I would've done would've been River "killed" the Doctor, but that wasn't really the reason why she was in prison.

As it was pointed out, technically Amy and Rory can still travel with the Doctor. Why not wait a few years, the Doctor comes back and takes them away. This is how the episode stands. Now to make Amy and Rory's departure permanent this is what I would've done: River is really in prison because she killed her father (Rory) after he's done something to save the entire universe. This would make Amy to never want to see the Doctor again because she'll always be reminded of what River did.

[keep-counting.livejournal.com]

A large part of the Ponds' storylines have been dissapointing to me: see River and the whole season six spectacle. Bad storylines are one thing, but bad storylines that diminishes characters and gives them even less depth than the show has already afforded them? Not cool.

I think River can be quite bossy - that's the problem. River can potentially be amazing. The woman we saw in Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, was this extraordinary, independent, sassy creature. Yet here it all falls short - we never know at what point in her timeline we are, she has a pseudo-weird relationship with Amy and Rory, her supposed parents, and the lack of chemistry between the actors, not to mention the forced 'love'-plot, makes the whole thing just awkward to watch.

Aw, your idea is absolutely heartbreaking! If RTD had still been showrunner, I could imagine something similar to that actually happening. That man lived off of the tears of his fans ;)

[fueschgast]

What I liked about Amy telling River to take care of the Doctor is that this time it's a woman getting told that. I've seen so many times where it's said to a man that it just sounds wrong.

Why the sudden inability to walk past a frozen Angel? If you keep your eyes on it, you can walk right past it - even touch it - without anything happening. No reason to run for the roof, really.
I know, right?! Personally I probably would have tried climing on the other side of the railing to get past the angel.

Why would Amy and Rory even stay in New York? Personally I would have gone back to my home country at least.

[keep-counting.livejournal.com]

It does, and normally its a horrible cliché, but considering the Doctor's behavior, in for example A Town of Mercy, it makes sense for Amy to want someone to take care of the Doctor: he's the one that gets unstable when he's left alone. I just wanted... some proper daughter/mother moment, you know? The whole storyline with Melody Pond is so messed up, and I dislike it so much because I find it so unbelievable; it just demeans Amy even more as a person, imo.

Exactly! And if you're scared of accidentally looking away when you're creeping along, have one person go at a time: the other one can watch the angel(s) while the first one gets past them, and then they can switch. But it was all: 'lol no, let's go to the roof because we can escape that way how??'

[turquoiseyes.livejournal.com]

Well, taking into account that they were transported back into 1938, that's pretty much all the reason you need for staying in the States seeing how half of London gets destroyed during WW2.

Also, if Amy's supposed to be the publisher of the Melody Malone story, it stands to reason that she'd have to still be living in New York so as to publish that.

[keep-counting.livejournal.com]

Hadn't thought of your first point :) but there isn't any part of the episode - that I remember - that states that the book was published by a company in New York or anything of the like. Just because what happens in it takes place in New York, doesn't mean it has to be published there (:

[turquoiseyes.livejournal.com]

I think River mentioned near the end of the episode(or was it somewhere in the middle...?) that it gets published by Amy(hence why she gets to write the Afterword), but I could be dead wrong about that...

[fueschgast]

D'oh, what did I miss? When did we find out that they got sent to 1938?

[keep-counting.livejournal.com]

I actually don't know.... o.o I just assumed because... I don't know. See, Moffat? You've fried my brain. And not in a good way.

[captaintish]

*hugs*

I think I pretty much agree with most of what you said here. Loved the episode, but there were definitely a few things that didn't make sense.

[keep-counting.livejournal.com]

It's actually getting me more and more frustrated as I think about it. It's hard to really miss the Ponds, when there's this nagging feeling of 'but WHY can't he see them?' Also, this was all yet another example of Moffat rewriting his own canon again and again and again. I have a bag at home with a picture of Lady Liberty. I should be running for my life.

[captaintish]

I have a bag at home with a picture of Lady Liberty. I should be running for my life.

LOL, I think you're probably safe. The photo was probably taken of the real Statue of Liberty, not during the time where the Angels were controlling the city. Let's hope. If you do get zapped back in time, invest in LJ, and PM me.

[malsperanza.livejournal.com]

I liked a lot about this episode. I'm not sorry that the Ponds have finished their run, and I think they went out well--really a couple, really grown up and bonded, after all the Amy shenanigans and her desire to have both Rory and the Doctor, and so on.

I'm intrigued to see a few episodes of the Doctor traveling with River. It's time to see more of them together, to find out why they fall in love (still not seein' that), and/or why they marry. It would be good, too, to get back to the whole complication of River living backward, so that we can see the Doctor forgetting as River remembers more and more. I've always liked the idea of a romantic foil for the Doctor who isn't young and innocent; now it's time to give that pair some screentime.

But that seems to have been just dropped by Moffat lately, like so much continuity with RTD's ideas.

And I'm doubtful that Moffat can write this relationship in a way that's interesting to adults and children alike, and - especially - that treats the two as equals in a real, substantive, and complicated partnership.

You've nailed a major problem with the River/Doctor relationship. Moffat is good at writing bad relationships cleverly, documenting them as they go south (as in his old sitcom Coupling), but he has no notion of how to make an adult relationship interesting.

Individually River and the Doctor are both really compelling, complex, funny, intriguing people, but when they're together they just do a kind of surface imitation of Hepburn/Tracy banter.

But Tracy/Hepburn banter was all about the joy of attraction. The characters they played weren't just turned on by each other in every line and look, but really admiring and fascinated by one another. In River/Doctor I see zero chemistry between the two actors, especially compared with how Tennant and Kingston clicked in their last scenes in the Silence in the Library episodes.

When Eleven and River together, they seem stiff and a little awkward, as if they don't really like one another. Alex Kingston smirks, and Matt Smith looks oddly young and antic and kind of giddy. He loses all the gravitas he had in his first episodes. And tough gunslinger River immediately has helpless meltdowns when he's around. A broken wrist makes her cry? Really?

[keep-counting.livejournal.com]

I'm very glad that we were shown Amy without doubt as well: it wasn't a choice between Rory and the Doctor, because there was no question in her mind this time, of who she wanted to pick. That part of it was very beautiful.

I'm really still not seeing the whole love-thing, and I'm afraid its not coming for us, because of their time-streams. At any given point, one of them is going to be more in love than the other, because one of them will know more than the other. Added to the fact that the Doctor knows how River is going to die, we have a whole bundle of dysfunctional and a deeply unbalanced relationship. That's why it could never work, and tbh, I preferred it when River was still in prison, sassing away and breaking out occasionally. How these two can be a stable point in each other lives... it doesn't fit with the rest of their relationship, not at all.

And to your last point: that is sadly another one of the 'a woman needs a man' that Moffat seems to be forcing down her throats ocassionally. I hate to keep pulling that card, but there we have River, strong and unyelding, yet not taking proper action until her husband shows up and tells her to :(

[londonmarie.livejournal.com]

I was a little disappointed with the graveyard scene. Rory gets zapped and yes it's no question in Amy's mind as to who she belongs with. The thing that grates me is when the Doctor says "Come along Pond" for the final time, I feel that there would've been a greater showing of how much Amy has grown if she corrected him by telling him that it's Williams and then says goodbye to him. There seems to be to me how she says "Raggedy Man, Goodbye" there's still a fraction of her that has chosen the Doctor over Rory. If the point of the episode was to show Amy's love for Rory, it really didn't come across, for me.

That's not to say Amy still doesn't love the Doctor in whatever fashion she's supposed to love him. But this was supposed to be the episode where Amy grew up, she's no longer waiting, there are no doubts, and she no longer needs her imaginary friend there for her, because she has the best friend she could ever have in Rory.

[mizz_destiny]

YES. Opposite would have been awesome.

[keep-counting.livejournal.com]

Also just think of how terrified Amy has been of the angels (probably still are, I'm betting this didn't help). I wish they had made a reference to that, because brrrrr, poor girl :/

[turquoiseyes.livejournal.com]

On account of River/Doctor, as far as I'm concerned, the jury's still not in. To me, all of this can be chalked up to than one sentence River said to the Doctor at the end of the second part of The Library episode, that she finally understood that he "looked at her that way because he knew where she was going and what would happen [to her]", if I recall correctly.

Of course, she was talking of "her Doctor", who could open the Tardis with a snap of his fingers(which I'm still waiting for, Moffat!) and who gave her his sonic screwdriver and that we now know to be the eleventh Doctor.

All of Doctor's actions and reactions toward River could be a by-product of him staying purposefully away from her so as to avoid falling in love and eventually losing her and then sometimes forgetting why he should do that, creating the whole hot/cold scenario between them. That in turn could reflect on River's view of their relationship. Most of the time, to me she just feels insecure of her place in his life and then covering up that insecurity with her cocky attitude the rest of the time, the mask slipping off in moments of high tension.

I'll give you that the writing of their relationship had been getting progressively sloppier as time went on, though.

Or it could all be, as you've all pointed out, just Moffat being Moffat, I'm still undecided :)

[keep-counting.livejournal.com]

(didn't Eleven snap the TARDIS-doors open in The Eleventh Hour when he invites Amy inside at the end?)

Ooh, I like your theory about the hot/cold-scenario. It is a difficult situation for the Doctor, and it is not made easier by the loss of Amy and Rory now. He is very much clinging to River, as of this moment, and that cannot be healthy at all. At least she has the sense to tell him they can't just be the two of them all the time, implying that he needs to go pick up other people as well.

[turquoiseyes.livejournal.com]

Ohhh, yeah! I kinda forgot about that :) Ooops...

But still, I kinda wanna see him do that more often, because to me it signifies that he's got more control over the Tardis, which is pretty much just a manifestation of his life in a physical form imho...Hmmm, I just answered my own dilemma of why he's not doing the snappy-door-thingy all that much, lol.

Sometimes writing things out/saying them out loud makes me figure some things out that previously escaped my brain-waves for quite a while :)

Edit: Yeah, I loved River saying that to him! She seems to be growing up, and not just old, much faster than he is. I'm biased, though, because I just can't help but love Alex Kingston as River :)

yes!

[john seven (from livejournal.com)]

Really good review. Apart from the story problems in this episode, which were huge - and I think this entire half-series has had major problems, each episode presenting a premise (good or bad) and not following through any of them with an actual story, just getting half way and then deflating them in the favor of sassy dialogue - I think the Ponds should've said good bye back when the Doctor bought them a house. Or, conversely, if they had to do it this way, why not have him return to them to their house after having witnessed the enormous gamble they took with their lives and it's not fair to expect that out of people. For the Doctor to learn a lesson and grow a little. How would that not be more poignant than the nonsensical ending Moffat came up with? Thanks for writing this, though!

Re: yes!

[keep-counting.livejournal.com]

Their ending in The God Complex did seem the best for me. We'd have had a nice slope of different goodbyes: Rose being ripped away from him, Martha leaving on her own accord (but still keeping in touch), Donna having to go and then him having to let go of the Ponds, completey voluntarily. It would have showed character-growth and taught something about 'growing' up and whatnot, instead of Moffat coming up with new things that mess with the laws of canon, just so he can dramatically say goodbye to these characters.

You're very welcome :)

Re: yes!

[londonmarie.livejournal.com]

Exactly I thought how The God Complex ended should've been their goodbye to traveling with the Doctor. He still could've popped in once in a while to say hello. But they don't travel as primary companions with him. I love The God Complex, because it was very reminiscent of the darkness of the Doctor that RTD brought to the character. Moffat seems to have the Doctor running around like a twelve year old. While the Doctor does good and great things, he can also do great and terrible things. With Moffat we really don't see that that often. And RTD had the companions willing to sacrifice themselves for the greater good. Moffat doesn't really seem to have captured that.